1
00:00:07,909 --> 00:00:06,070
[Music]

2
00:00:09,509 --> 00:00:07,919
well good evening everyone thank you for

3
00:00:11,669 --> 00:00:09,519
being here

4
00:00:13,830 --> 00:00:11,679
i am especially happy to be presenting

5
00:00:16,790 --> 00:00:13,840
on this topic today at this joint

6
00:00:18,550 --> 00:00:16,800
conference with the theme of connections

7
00:00:21,109 --> 00:00:18,560
because i'm looking to make connections

8
00:00:24,150 --> 00:00:21,119
across something of a gulf

9
00:00:27,029 --> 00:00:24,160
as an academic with a foot

10
00:00:29,029 --> 00:00:27,039
no real pun intended in both the bigfoot

11
00:00:30,870 --> 00:00:29,039
research community and that of

12
00:00:33,110 --> 00:00:30,880
parapsychology

13
00:00:35,670 --> 00:00:33,120
i see a divide between researchers in

14
00:00:37,990 --> 00:00:35,680
the two fields and the divide seems to

15
00:00:41,430 --> 00:00:38,000
follow the occupational lenses that

16
00:00:43,350 --> 00:00:41,440
investigators bring to their work

17
00:00:46,549 --> 00:00:43,360
scientifically minded sasquatch

18
00:00:48,389 --> 00:00:46,559
investigators tend towards exclusively

19
00:00:50,709 --> 00:00:48,399
biological theories

20
00:00:53,270 --> 00:00:50,719
to the extent of virtually ignoring any

21
00:00:54,709 --> 00:00:53,280
aspects of witnesses personal subjective

22
00:00:57,270 --> 00:00:54,719
experiences

23
00:00:59,990 --> 00:00:57,280
beyond those relevant to determining

24
00:01:01,750 --> 00:01:00,000
whether or not a report is credible

25
00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:01,760
the options here are generally that a

26
00:01:05,670 --> 00:01:04,040
given report is factual

27
00:01:07,109 --> 00:01:05,680
misidentification

28
00:01:08,789 --> 00:01:07,119
fabrication

29
00:01:10,550 --> 00:01:08,799
or that its credibility can't be

30
00:01:12,789 --> 00:01:10,560
determined

31
00:01:15,190 --> 00:01:12,799
among amateur bigfoot investigators and

32
00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:15,200
enthusiasts there are two basic

33
00:01:18,789 --> 00:01:16,320
positions

34
00:01:21,030 --> 00:01:18,799
the flesh and blood camp who hold the

35
00:01:23,510 --> 00:01:21,040
natural biological and evolutionary

36
00:01:25,350 --> 00:01:23,520
ideas of some sort of unknown north

37
00:01:26,469 --> 00:01:25,360
american primate

38
00:01:28,710 --> 00:01:26,479
and the wu

39
00:01:30,710 --> 00:01:28,720
as in

40
00:01:33,350 --> 00:01:30,720
those who are somewhat out there those

41
00:01:35,270 --> 00:01:33,360
whose theories include supernormal or

42
00:01:36,469 --> 00:01:35,280
supernatural elements

43
00:01:38,469 --> 00:01:36,479
including the bigfoots or

44
00:01:41,510 --> 00:01:38,479
interdimensional beings that they're

45
00:01:43,270 --> 00:01:41,520
extraterrestrials associated with ufos

46
00:01:45,429 --> 00:01:43,280
that they possess extensive psi

47
00:01:48,389 --> 00:01:45,439
abilities that they are the biblical

48
00:01:50,069 --> 00:01:48,399
nephilim the ancient offspring of angels

49
00:01:52,389 --> 00:01:50,079
and human women

50
00:01:56,069 --> 00:01:52,399
or that they are topolite creations of

51
00:01:58,230 --> 00:01:56,079
individuals or group consciousness

52
00:02:01,270 --> 00:01:58,240
within the bigfoot community it should

53
00:02:03,510 --> 00:02:01,280
be noted the term paranormal is used

54
00:02:05,429 --> 00:02:03,520
only to refer to this latter group and

55
00:02:07,830 --> 00:02:05,439
their ideas

56
00:02:09,510 --> 00:02:07,840
still the notion of an extant

57
00:02:12,229 --> 00:02:09,520
undiscovered hominid is hardly

58
00:02:14,470 --> 00:02:12,239
considered normal by mainstream science

59
00:02:16,550 --> 00:02:14,480
nor by americans overall

60
00:02:19,030 --> 00:02:16,560
you usually find bigfoot titles in the

61
00:02:22,790 --> 00:02:19,040
same section of the bookstore as ufos

62
00:02:24,949 --> 00:02:22,800
psy witchcraft and parapsychology

63
00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:24,959
while sasquatch is considered outside

64
00:02:29,030 --> 00:02:27,760
the bounds of parapsychology by most psy

65
00:02:30,949 --> 00:02:29,040
proponents

66
00:02:34,229 --> 00:02:30,959
i find that many presume that its

67
00:02:36,550 --> 00:02:34,239
ultimate explanation lies through their

68
00:02:38,790 --> 00:02:36,560
own occupational limbs

69
00:02:41,270 --> 00:02:38,800
in other words that bigfoot encounters

70
00:02:44,630 --> 00:02:41,280
are a similar sort of personal

71
00:02:47,190 --> 00:02:44,640
subjective experience as are apparitions

72
00:02:48,630 --> 00:02:47,200
poltergeists or other manifestations of

73
00:02:54,710 --> 00:02:48,640
psy

74
00:02:57,589 --> 00:02:54,720
skeptical of materialist science

75
00:02:59,990 --> 00:02:57,599
may view normal biological approaches to

76
00:03:01,509 --> 00:03:00,000
the study of any paranormal unknown as

77
00:03:05,190 --> 00:03:01,519
naive

78
00:03:06,949 --> 00:03:05,200
most certainly too i suspect that steep

79
00:03:09,350 --> 00:03:06,959
does american culture is and the

80
00:03:11,030 --> 00:03:09,360
rhetoric of the skeptical movement

81
00:03:12,790 --> 00:03:11,040
that bigfoot researchers and

82
00:03:15,509 --> 00:03:12,800
parapsychologists

83
00:03:17,910 --> 00:03:15,519
almost reflexively look at one another's

84
00:03:19,430 --> 00:03:17,920
field as lacking in evidence or even

85
00:03:22,710 --> 00:03:19,440
laughable

86
00:03:26,309 --> 00:03:22,720
we may be viewed as crazy each might say

87
00:03:28,149 --> 00:03:26,319
but at least we're not those people

88
00:03:30,630 --> 00:03:28,159
apart from the sheer cultural issues

89
00:03:32,789 --> 00:03:30,640
communication across this gulf is so

90
00:03:35,910 --> 00:03:32,799
difficult because of the very different

91
00:03:38,070 --> 00:03:35,920
evidentiary practices on either side

92
00:03:41,110 --> 00:03:38,080
even when psy and normal theories of

93
00:03:43,509 --> 00:03:41,120
sasquatch are seriously co-considered it

94
00:03:45,589 --> 00:03:43,519
has thus far inevitably been pretty much

95
00:03:47,190 --> 00:03:45,599
of a thought exercise rather than a

96
00:03:49,589 --> 00:03:47,200
testable model

97
00:03:51,589 --> 00:03:49,599
for example joshua kutchen's recent

98
00:03:53,190 --> 00:03:51,599
article in edge science

99
00:03:54,949 --> 00:03:53,200
looks at bigfoot through the lens of

100
00:03:57,350 --> 00:03:54,959
poltergeist phenomena

101
00:03:59,750 --> 00:03:57,360
it presents interesting speculation as

102
00:04:01,509 --> 00:03:59,760
to possibilities in this area

103
00:04:04,309 --> 00:04:01,519
but it really fails to move beyond

104
00:04:06,309 --> 00:04:04,319
speculation

105
00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:06,319
now while today i'm not presenting a

106
00:04:11,830 --> 00:04:09,200
formal study or findings i do hope to

107
00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:11,840
move past mere speculation towards

108
00:04:17,590 --> 00:04:15,040
testability by sharing some observations

109
00:04:20,069 --> 00:04:17,600
and especially some ways of perhaps

110
00:04:23,590 --> 00:04:20,079
determining which big claimed bigfoot

111
00:04:28,150 --> 00:04:23,600
cases might be more profitably explored

112
00:04:33,270 --> 00:04:30,469
setting aside cases appropriately

113
00:04:35,909 --> 00:04:33,280
explainable by normal hypotheses of

114
00:04:38,310 --> 00:04:35,919
hoaxing or misinterpretation i think

115
00:04:40,790 --> 00:04:38,320
it's first of all important to be clear

116
00:04:43,430 --> 00:04:40,800
that any psi hypothesis is highly

117
00:04:44,950 --> 00:04:43,440
unlikely to explain the full sasquatch

118
00:04:47,189 --> 00:04:44,960
phenomenon

119
00:04:50,230 --> 00:04:47,199
contrary to the claims of ideological

120
00:04:52,710 --> 00:04:50,240
skeptics sasquatch evidence is far more

121
00:04:55,110 --> 00:04:52,720
than just eyewitness accounts and

122
00:04:57,189 --> 00:04:55,120
eyewitness accounts as a corpus are

123
00:04:59,749 --> 00:04:57,199
generally quite consistent both

124
00:05:01,110 --> 00:04:59,759
internally and with known primate

125
00:05:03,870 --> 00:05:01,120
behavior

126
00:05:06,550 --> 00:05:03,880
occam's razor clearly favors

127
00:05:09,110 --> 00:05:06,560
hypothesizing a possible undiscovered

128
00:05:11,590 --> 00:05:09,120
north american primate

129
00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:11,600
certainly countless case studies support

130
00:05:18,150 --> 00:05:15,680
the idea of psy or rspk not

131
00:05:20,390 --> 00:05:18,160
producing not just physical effects but

132
00:05:21,830 --> 00:05:20,400
even manifesting matter through apports

133
00:05:24,150 --> 00:05:21,840
and the like

134
00:05:26,469 --> 00:05:24,160
so why wouldn't these explain sasquatch

135
00:05:29,510 --> 00:05:26,479
footprints and trackways alleged

136
00:05:31,909 --> 00:05:29,520
sasquatch hair sebum prints and other

137
00:05:34,070 --> 00:05:31,919
alleged physical evidence

138
00:05:36,310 --> 00:05:34,080
simply put because the level of super

139
00:05:38,710 --> 00:05:36,320
psy required to produce the extant

140
00:05:41,270 --> 00:05:38,720
evidence seems unreasonable

141
00:05:43,510 --> 00:05:41,280
just to consider the footprint casts

142
00:05:46,230 --> 00:05:43,520
the more credible examples

143
00:05:48,150 --> 00:05:46,240
of these share common features that are

144
00:05:49,350 --> 00:05:48,160
distinct from the database of known

145
00:05:51,830 --> 00:05:49,360
animals

146
00:05:54,150 --> 00:05:51,840
as noted by anthropologist grover krantz

147
00:05:56,469 --> 00:05:54,160
and jeff meldrum they exhibit common

148
00:05:59,029 --> 00:05:56,479
traits consistent with the morphology

149
00:06:00,870 --> 00:05:59,039
and physiology of an hypothesized

150
00:06:03,430 --> 00:06:00,880
primate's foot

151
00:06:06,790 --> 00:06:03,440
traits that would generally not be known

152
00:06:11,990 --> 00:06:09,189
while the presence of dermal ridges was

153
00:06:13,350 --> 00:06:12,000
only noted in the early 1980s an alleged

154
00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:13,360
track cast

155
00:06:20,070 --> 00:06:16,400
these were also seen upon re-analysis of

156
00:06:22,150 --> 00:06:20,080
many castes from earlier decades

157
00:06:24,870 --> 00:06:22,160
if they're documented cases of reports

158
00:06:27,510 --> 00:06:24,880
of genuine coins or newspapers with

159
00:06:30,870 --> 00:06:27,520
future dates i hope somebody will let me

160
00:06:36,309 --> 00:06:33,670
beyond just the physical evidence

161
00:06:39,110 --> 00:06:36,319
the nature of eyewitness accounts of

162
00:06:41,510 --> 00:06:39,120
sasquatch generally reflect what seemed

163
00:06:43,189 --> 00:06:41,520
to be biological creatures

164
00:06:46,070 --> 00:06:43,199
reports in north america have a

165
00:06:48,870 --> 00:06:46,080
centuries-old history predating european

166
00:06:51,430 --> 00:06:48,880
colonization they share very similar

167
00:06:54,629 --> 00:06:51,440
physical and behavioral descriptions

168
00:06:56,629 --> 00:06:54,639
and reported behaviors closely reflect

169
00:06:59,990 --> 00:06:56,639
the documented behaviors of known

170
00:07:02,469 --> 00:07:00,000
primates in other parts of the world

171
00:07:05,350 --> 00:07:02,479
rock throwing for example has been a

172
00:07:08,070 --> 00:07:05,360
common feature of many bigfoot reports

173
00:07:11,029 --> 00:07:08,080
even prior to being documented

174
00:07:16,309 --> 00:07:11,039
scientifically as a behavior of known

175
00:07:21,110 --> 00:07:18,550
so if i think that the most likely

176
00:07:23,589 --> 00:07:21,120
paranormal hypothesis by which sasquatch

177
00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:23,599
phenomena should be tested is biological

178
00:07:26,550 --> 00:07:24,880
and natural

179
00:07:28,390 --> 00:07:26,560
then why am i speaking today about

180
00:07:30,629 --> 00:07:28,400
poltergeists

181
00:07:33,430 --> 00:07:30,639
because i don't think that a biological

182
00:07:36,230 --> 00:07:33,440
hypothesis explains all of reported

183
00:07:38,070 --> 00:07:36,240
bigfoot experiences

184
00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:38,080
on the one hand it wouldn't surprise me

185
00:07:43,189 --> 00:07:40,080
at all if the vast majority of bigfoot

186
00:07:47,350 --> 00:07:43,199
reports had normal explanations rooted

187
00:07:49,510 --> 00:07:47,360
in fraud misidentification or paradoia

188
00:07:52,070 --> 00:07:49,520
yet at the same time i like to err on

189
00:07:53,510 --> 00:07:52,080
the side of believing witnesses at least

190
00:07:56,469 --> 00:07:53,520
in the sense of believing in their

191
00:07:58,309 --> 00:07:56,479
subjective experiences if not always in

192
00:08:01,110 --> 00:07:58,319
their interpretations of those

193
00:08:03,350 --> 00:08:01,120
experiences

194
00:08:06,550 --> 00:08:03,360
as someone also interested in potential

195
00:08:09,270 --> 00:08:06,560
psi phenomena i don't want to dismiss

196
00:08:12,469 --> 00:08:09,280
the small yet significant sliver of

197
00:08:15,029 --> 00:08:12,479
reports that include phenomena often of

198
00:08:16,469 --> 00:08:15,039
interest to parapsychologists

199
00:08:18,710 --> 00:08:16,479
these include

200
00:08:21,189 --> 00:08:18,720
the perceived co-occurrence of bigfoot

201
00:08:22,790 --> 00:08:21,199
account encounters and anomalous lights

202
00:08:25,510 --> 00:08:22,800
or uaps

203
00:08:27,830 --> 00:08:25,520
reports of sasquatch's apparition-like

204
00:08:29,189 --> 00:08:27,840
figures that are perceived to vanish in

205
00:08:31,990 --> 00:08:29,199
plain sight

206
00:08:33,190 --> 00:08:32,000
and reports of bigfoot mind-speaking to

207
00:08:35,269 --> 00:08:33,200
witnesses

208
00:08:37,589 --> 00:08:35,279
this latter is usually described as a

209
00:08:39,909 --> 00:08:37,599
perceived voice in the witnesses head

210
00:08:41,909 --> 00:08:39,919
that they insist is not their own

211
00:08:44,149 --> 00:08:41,919
generally either directing the witness

212
00:08:47,030 --> 00:08:44,159
where to look to see a bigfoot

213
00:08:50,790 --> 00:08:47,040
or perhaps most commonly directing them

214
00:08:52,829 --> 00:08:50,800
to flee upon seeing a bigfoot

215
00:08:55,509 --> 00:08:52,839
but you can probably easily

216
00:08:57,190 --> 00:08:55,519
hypothesize psi potentially operating in

217
00:08:59,269 --> 00:08:57,200
any of these scenarios

218
00:09:01,269 --> 00:08:59,279
each presents particular problems in

219
00:09:02,310 --> 00:09:01,279
terms of parsing out what might be

220
00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:02,320
happening

221
00:09:07,990 --> 00:09:05,040
as indeed any of these might be mixed

222
00:09:10,710 --> 00:09:08,000
scenarios where a perceived or actual

223
00:09:13,829 --> 00:09:10,720
bigfoot encounter triggered or was

224
00:09:16,230 --> 00:09:13,839
triggered by a psy experience

225
00:09:18,310 --> 00:09:16,240
i always caution my students when using

226
00:09:20,389 --> 00:09:18,320
scientific techniques to study the

227
00:09:23,750 --> 00:09:20,399
paranormal to heed the advice from

228
00:09:25,910 --> 00:09:23,760
ghostbusters and don't cross the streams

229
00:09:27,910 --> 00:09:25,920
in other words while phenomenon might

230
00:09:29,269 --> 00:09:27,920
indeed have mixed or complex

231
00:09:31,670 --> 00:09:29,279
explanations

232
00:09:33,910 --> 00:09:31,680
understanding them scientifically must

233
00:09:38,230 --> 00:09:33,920
proceed in a controlled way

234
00:09:40,550 --> 00:09:38,240
generally one hypothesis at a time

235
00:09:43,190 --> 00:09:40,560
so for example while there could be an

236
00:09:45,829 --> 00:09:43,200
unknown north american primate species

237
00:09:48,310 --> 00:09:45,839
that exhibit strong psi abilities

238
00:09:50,949 --> 00:09:48,320
scientific inquiry needs to follow a

239
00:09:51,990 --> 00:09:50,959
logical path of hypotheses

240
00:09:53,990 --> 00:09:52,000
say

241
00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:54,000
prove first that an unknown species

242
00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:55,120
exists

243
00:10:00,550 --> 00:09:57,440
then perhaps its capacity for psi might

244
00:10:03,590 --> 00:10:01,750
however

245
00:10:06,150 --> 00:10:03,600
as it's been percolating my brain for

246
00:10:08,710 --> 00:10:06,160
years now there is a place to look for

247
00:10:12,310 --> 00:10:08,720
side effects now and that is in the

248
00:10:15,430 --> 00:10:12,320
potential rspk of living human agents

249
00:10:17,509 --> 00:10:15,440
in select reported encounters

250
00:10:19,670 --> 00:10:17,519
while a formal phenomenological study

251
00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:19,680
would be in order i've noted several

252
00:10:25,030 --> 00:10:22,880
features of some alleged reports both

253
00:10:28,389 --> 00:10:25,040
documented and reports that i've heard

254
00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:28,399
firsthand that seem to be to seem to fit

255
00:10:32,230 --> 00:10:30,480
an rspk pattern

256
00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:32,240
rather than that of a biological

257
00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:35,120
creature especially as these features

258
00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:41,910
tossing of pebbles

259
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:44,480
while this is not completely unheard of

260
00:10:48,389 --> 00:10:46,480
among known primate species it is

261
00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:48,399
exceedingly rare

262
00:10:52,310 --> 00:10:50,399
rocks are generally documented and

263
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:52,320
reported as thrown for intimidation

264
00:10:57,269 --> 00:10:54,959
purposes and the tossing of tiny pebbles

265
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:57,279
is not terribly intimidating

266
00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:00,399
on the other hand rspk effects often

267
00:11:05,110 --> 00:11:02,959
tend towards smaller and opportunistic

268
00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:05,120
objects

269
00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:08,000
return of rock throws

270
00:11:12,069 --> 00:11:09,680
while seemingly

271
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:12,079
not common at all in these reports some

272
00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:15,200
witnesses do report that they threw

273
00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:17,600
rocks back and forth with an unseen

274
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:18,959
bigfoot

275
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:21,200
this seems to me reminiscent of the

276
00:11:25,269 --> 00:11:23,440
cardiff poltergeist case documented by

277
00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:25,279
david fontana

278
00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:27,519
as well as the nottingham stone thrower

279
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:30,240
documented by tony cornell

280
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:32,079
these are just two cases that i'm aware

281
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:34,160
of and i guess that there likely are

282
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:36,240
more that involve the two-way tossing of

283
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:41,350
a class b report

284
00:11:46,230 --> 00:11:44,160
in amateur bigfoot researcher lingo this

285
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:46,240
refers to an alleged encounter where the

286
00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:48,959
bigfoot is not actually seen

287
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:51,279
only heard or its alleged effects are

288
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:52,399
seen

289
00:11:57,110 --> 00:11:54,959
in poltergeist experiences too effects

290
00:12:00,030 --> 00:11:57,120
are generally witnessed rather than

291
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:01,910
intentionality

292
00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:04,639
experience are not only certain

293
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:06,880
believers in bigfoot

294
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:10,000
but actively seeking

295
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:13,920
in seeking encounters often through

296
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:16,720
prayer or thoughtful intention

297
00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:18,720
most bigfoot encounters are reported by

298
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:22,480
people engaged in other activities

299
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:25,760
intention in rspk cases tends to be

300
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:28,079
subconscious but again is vital to the

301
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:36,150
extreme frequency

302
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:38,800
experience are involved too frequently

303
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:41,760
or even almost always report experiences

304
00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:43,519
when seeking them

305
00:12:48,310 --> 00:12:45,920
similarly poltergeist phenomena are

306
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:48,320
ongoing at least during the period of

307
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:55,350
non-credible locations

308
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:57,680
these experiences are often associated

309
00:13:02,949 --> 00:12:59,600
with areas that would seem

310
00:13:06,389 --> 00:13:02,959
unlikely habitat for a natural species

311
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:06,399
for example well-populated suburbs

312
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:09,360
very small state parks

313
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:11,360
a friend's living room

314
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,440
or immediately adjacent to the venue of

315
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:15,680
a current bigfoot conference

316
00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:17,680
by which i mean of course a conference

317
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:19,600
about bigfoot not a conference of

318
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:22,240
bigfoot creatures

319
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:24,160
one experience told me that he might

320
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:25,360
have an ex

321
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:30,560
a one or two acre patch of trees

322
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:36,389
rspk

323
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:44,949
an initial encounter

324
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:48,480
that seems much more credible many of

325
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:50,880
these experience have a very different

326
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:52,800
first encounter story

327
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:55,279
where they describe a spontaneous and

328
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:57,680
much more biologically

329
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:00,240
locationally geographically credible

330
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:03,120
precedent experience some will have the

331
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:05,360
sense that something followed them home

332
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:07,519
or will thereafter seek out further

333
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:11,040
experiences which tend to then fit the

334
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:13,760
patterns that i'm noting here

335
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:17,199
if rspk or even conscious pk underlies

336
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:19,680
his experiences it's not difficult to

337
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:22,880
imagine a real bigfoot encounter at

338
00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:25,440
least an encounter perceived as real as

339
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:27,920
an event or even trauma

340
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:30,480
that precipitates subsequent sci

341
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:33,360
experiences

342
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:35,600
encounter reports that hold most or all

343
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:37,279
of these features

344
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:39,040
tend to be ignored by most

345
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:40,880
scientifically minded sasquatch

346
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:43,839
researchers the biologically oriented

347
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:44,720
ones

348
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:47,279
as perhaps they should because they fit

349
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:50,079
neither the standard range of reports

350
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:53,440
nor a biologically plausible theory

351
00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:55,680
but they're strong fit to the range and

352
00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:58,639
models of poltergeist phenomena lead me

353
00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:01,360
to think that this way of parsing out

354
00:15:04,629 --> 00:15:03,440
what are more likely to be psy-related

355
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:04,639
reports

356
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:07,040
offers a place for parapsychologists to

357
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:08,800
investigate

358
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:10,959
for paris psychologists these

359
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:13,680
individuals this ongoing experience of

360
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:15,680
paranormal phenomena

361
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:17,839
offer the chance to investigate in much

362
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,040
less ad hoc or opportunistic ways than

363
00:15:26,069 --> 00:15:23,279
the typically short-term poltergeist

364
00:15:26,949 --> 00:15:26,079
case

365
00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:26,959
thank you

366
00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:30,160
boy i was hoping you weren't finished i

367
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:31,759
was really getting into that you was

368
00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:34,240
really interesting

369
00:15:37,350 --> 00:15:35,839
um so

370
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:37,360
darby uh

371
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:39,279
have you had a bigfoot encounter what

372
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:41,040
what brought you into this what made you

373
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:46,949
well um john i i think you know the

374
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:49,199
origins of my course but you know my

375
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:51,600
interest in teaching this course but you

376
00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:54,079
know very briefly i was

377
00:16:01,910 --> 00:16:00,069
i was involved uh quite a few years ago

378
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:01,920
and helping to put together a team for

379
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:04,240
an invited darpa proposal

380
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:06,160
that um

381
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:07,600
let's just say

382
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:10,240
bordered on the parapsychological really

383
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:12,720
it was very close and it got me really

384
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:14,480
interested in this question of you know

385
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:15,680
what's

386
00:16:19,509 --> 00:16:17,839
what sorts of questions are allowed in

387
00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:19,519
mainstream science what sorts of

388
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:20,800
questions are

389
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:23,839
uh outside of the veil you know why you

390
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:26,720
know really wondering about the the the

391
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:29,120
culture and the philosophy and the the

392
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:31,600
practices of science in from that

393
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:34,079
perspective and so that was that was

394
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:36,320
where i conceived of my course and as i

395
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:39,040
was looking around for areas you know

396
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:41,519
certainly i i you know i was aware of

397
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:43,279
parapsychology i wasn't you know i was

398
00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:45,120
aware of bigfoot

399
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:47,680
i started looking into these areas

400
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:51,360
um and that was when i i really just

401
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:54,000
went down that rabbit hole and and uh

402
00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:56,880
became uh you know a little a little bit

403
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:58,800
engaged with these communities in terms

404
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:01,120
of seeing what was going on

405
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:02,240
um

406
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:04,480
what were the sorts of of

407
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:06,480
scientific tools and scientific thinking

408
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:08,240
that they were applying

409
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:09,120
and

410
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:11,280
um

411
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:13,520
here's where i am today

412
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:14,959
with the foot in both of these

413
00:17:19,510 --> 00:17:17,760
communities as well as continuing in

414
00:17:24,230 --> 00:17:19,520
traditional um

415
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,829
so okay you're avoiding the question i

416
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:27,679
want to ask

417
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:29,440
well

418
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:32,799
you know i i you know i i i have i let

419
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:34,960
me let me put it this way you know in in

420
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:38,240
just a few years uh by by

421
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:40,960
going out into the field and and

422
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:44,559
shadowing investigators of all kinds and

423
00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:47,200
seeing what's going on um

424
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:48,799
i have

425
00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:54,000
i've experienced some things that

426
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:55,120
are

427
00:18:00,150 --> 00:17:56,720
consistent

428
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:00,160
uh with a with a sasquatch hypothesis

429
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:03,120
um i wouldn't say that that i'm certain

430
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:03,919
that

431
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:06,880
what i encountered what you know was

432
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:07,919
that

433
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,760
um

434
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:11,919
including probably the the strongest

435
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:13,679
evidence that i

436
00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:16,000
that i encountered was that i've

437
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:18,160
i i actually um

438
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:20,000
found a uh

439
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:23,039
a pair of of apparent trackways

440
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:26,640
uh in the woods in eastern kentucky

441
00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:29,360
and so that's that's uh i've seen enough

442
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:32,480
now to continue to keep my curiosity at

443
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:38,950
very cool so um lots of compliments for

444
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:40,799
your presentation lots of them are

445
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:43,039
coming through the chat um

446
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:45,280
there there's literature out there that

447
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:46,799
uh relates

448
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:49,280
bigfoot and alien phenomena

449
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:51,679
and people sometimes say that perhaps

450
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:53,760
it's a cross-dimensional being that

451
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:55,840
comes into appearance and then leaves i

452
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:57,120
wonder if you have any thoughts about

453
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,760
this and if you've encountered that

454
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:01,679
i mean i've encountered people who

455
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:03,520
believe that i should say

456
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:06,480
oh absolutely absolutely there's uh

457
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:09,360
there are quite a few of them in the uh

458
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:11,840
you know the so-called bigfoot community

459
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:14,960
um and yeah i've i've met many of them

460
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:15,919
and

461
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:16,799
uh

462
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:17,760
you know the

463
00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:19,120
the

464
00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:21,440
problems that i have with with those

465
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,080
theories is that they are

466
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:26,320
using an unknown to explain another

467
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:27,440
unknown

468
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:31,039
um i haven't um i haven't seen a

469
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:32,559
particularly

470
00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:34,160
coherent and

471
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:36,160
especially testable or you know

472
00:19:41,190 --> 00:19:39,360
evidence-based theory of that um other

473
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:41,200
than you know people

474
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:44,000
you know other than than

475
00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:46,160
people just relying on

476
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:47,520
on uh

477
00:19:51,909 --> 00:19:49,679
you know a you know that sliver of

478
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:51,919
reports to say that's what's going on

479
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:54,320
now that doesn't mean that that's not

480
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:57,120
what's going on there uh it's just that

481
00:20:04,149 --> 00:19:59,520
i think it's it would be premature to

482
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:07,510
so we in our in our field we often talk

483
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:09,520
about the sheep goat effect and how much

484
00:20:14,149 --> 00:20:12,080
of a world belief can play do you think

485
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:14,159
that the lack of belief being a strong

486
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:15,840
goat could prevent people from having

487
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:21,110
uh

488
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,830
the interesting thing about that i you

489
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:27,360
know i hadn't really thought about the

490
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:29,840
sheep goat effect with regard to this

491
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:31,280
topic but

492
00:20:35,909 --> 00:20:33,600
now that i've been asked um i think

493
00:20:36,910 --> 00:20:35,919
they're probably two ways that it it

494
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,920
comes in

495
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:39,039
[Music]

496
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:41,760
one is that i

497
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:43,760
i think that they're probably

498
00:20:46,830 --> 00:20:44,610
folks

499
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:46,840
[Music]

500
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:49,520
who wouldn't you know if

501
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:52,080
if if whatever agent however we define a

502
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:55,520
genuine experience um they might not

503
00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:57,360
even notice it or they might not even

504
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:59,520
perceive that experience

505
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:01,360
um if

506
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:03,679
this wasn't on their radar at all

507
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,159
um and i think they're they're

508
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,799
that's probably the if you've ever seen

509
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:10,559
that that

510
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:13,039
psychology experiment where they're

511
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:14,880
dribbling basketballs and they tell you

512
00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:16,480
to count the basketballs and then at

513
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:18,320
some point a gorilla comes and walks

514
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:20,240
through the video and dances around and

515
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:22,320
leaves and most people never see the

516
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:23,360
gorilla

517
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:24,400
so

518
00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:28,080
going on all the time

519
00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:31,360
i do think that in the cases that uh to

520
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:34,400
my mind seem to fit the rspk

521
00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:37,120
hypothesis much more strongly

522
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:39,280
i absolutely think that that's what's

523
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:42,720
going on um some of these folks

524
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:45,919
wow i mean literally

525
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:47,440
they can

526
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:50,640
every time they go out in any woods

527
00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:52,159
anywhere

528
00:21:56,149 --> 00:21:54,000
they will have an experience they will

529
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:56,159
report an experience and some of these

530
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:59,440
experiences seem to be shared

531
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:01,280
the the you know the pebbles being

532
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:02,320
thrown

533
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:04,720
um

534
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:06,799
you know it's not just one person going

535
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:09,039
out and saying this happened it's you

536
00:22:13,830 --> 00:22:11,440
know two or three people investigating

537
00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:13,840
together who experienced this

538
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:15,440
um

539
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:16,799
yeah so

540
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:19,520
i i i imagine that's gotta be going on

541
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:22,960
in these you know more rspk

542
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:25,280
ish cases

543
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:28,000
so is it the pebbles that really had you

544
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:30,720
start looking into the rspk or what was

545
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:32,480
the key thing that kind of

546
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:33,840
made you decide that might be a

547
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:36,000
phenomenon to explore

548
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:38,320
well it was the pebbles because the

549
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:40,480
pebbles were

550
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:41,760
um

551
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:43,360
the

552
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,669
observable

553
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:51,600
piece of the story

554
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:54,320
that you know that reported by multiple

555
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:55,600
people

556
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:56,720
um

557
00:23:01,350 --> 00:22:59,120
uh and so

558
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:01,360
that led me to believe you know this

559
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:03,440
there's there's something there's

560
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:05,200
probably something

561
00:23:08,950 --> 00:23:06,960
unless all those people are lying about

562
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:08,960
it you know there's probably something

563
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:10,080
going on

564
00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:12,080
or you know or a hoax situation or what

565
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:14,320
have you um there's probably there's

566
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:15,440
something

567
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:17,520
objective going on it's not just an

568
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:25,750
really interesting perspective you're

569
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:29,039
taking on this uh going back to the

570
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:30,000
uh

571
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:32,080
sasquatch legends

572
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:34,400
do you know where they what period they

573
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:36,320
originated from the north american

574
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:38,320
legends of sasquatch

575
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:41,200
uh i mean they go back well before

576
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:43,279
european colonization

577
00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:46,720
um so there there are there are tribal

578
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:50,159
stories going back

579
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:53,520
who knows thousands of years

580
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:54,720
the

581
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:57,200
a

582
00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:58,720
possible

583
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:00,720
um

584
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:03,600
possible account of sasquatch encounters

585
00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:06,640
found in the uh the finland saga which

586
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:09,520
is the the vikings record of their

587
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:11,919
travels in north america

588
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:13,919
um

589
00:24:16,830 --> 00:24:15,279
yeah so i mean they

590
00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:16,840
they go way back

591
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:19,840
um and teddy roosevelt didn't he

592
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:21,840
encounter a sasquatch

593
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:23,919
teddy roosevelt did not encounter a

594
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:27,360
sasquatch but he reported secondhand a

595
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:29,279
story that he had heard

596
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:32,400
uh from a trapper who

597
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:37,190
and that's just to show you how the

598
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:44,310
so of course there's never been any

599
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:47,679
physical remains found of sasquatch

600
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:50,240
so uh from your from your perspective

601
00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:54,549
well

602
00:25:03,669 --> 00:24:55,520
i

603
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:03,679
that's been

604
00:25:08,789 --> 00:25:06,720
brought you know brought forward um

605
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:08,799
there there

606
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:10,400
there are some

607
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:11,600
uh

608
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:14,960
there is some physical evidence um and

609
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:16,960
that's actually something that i'm also

610
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:19,520
working on getting together

611
00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:22,559
um i've i'm i'm in the i've been in the

612
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:24,080
process of putting together a really

613
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:26,320
interesting team of scientists too

614
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:29,120
to really truly evaluate what what scant

615
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:31,679
physical evidence there is

616
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:32,960
um

617
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:37,590
i gotta say i mean

618
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:42,559
you know the the lack of a body ever is

619
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:44,960
somewhat problematic to the hypothesis

620
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,240
on the one hand

621
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:48,400
um but on the other if you're talking

622
00:25:54,549 --> 00:25:50,640
about a you know a

623
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:54,559
a very rare very elusive and you know

624
00:26:00,950 --> 00:25:59,039
likely the most intelligent um

625
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:00,960
north american

626
00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:03,760
mammal apart from perhaps

627
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:09,269
i don't know i mean

628
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:12,640
yes it's a problem it's a problem but

629
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:14,240
on the other hand you have to look at

630
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:18,159
the evidence that there is and

631
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:19,840
there aren't real elegant ways to

632
00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:23,039
explain away the best evidence

633
00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:24,799
well it's been really interesting i